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  1. #11
    Ruben Villager
    Feb 2015
    Cornwall
    153
    Most good VC builds that I find have a good mix of actives and Strength skills. VC can really utilize his actives well (great utility along with DPS) while having amazing burst from his Strength skills. Having Ifrit Flame or Giga Prominence is good too, yet those are Bravery skills.

    MP Cost Reduction:
    Probably the best investment imo to keep both actives and Strength skills viable

    Cooldown Reduction:
    This investment is highly underestimated for VC. I know Skyress mentioned Flames of Victory, yet IC-N's flames won't be around all the time. Besides, it doesn't hurt to have more cooldown reduction even if IC-N's flames are around. Despite having MP Cost Reduction, having Cooldown Reduction will greatly open up several Heavy traits and bring less worry about increased costs from Critical traits that exist on many of VC's skills. I'm pretty sure Cooldown Reduction is calculated after Heavy trait's cooldown increase, which makes Cooldown Reduction even more effective. Having many more Heavy traits with Cooldown Reduction will help make up for the lack of investment in skill damage. Cooldown Reduction is amazing for VC. Seriously, VC has so many Heavy skills, it's literally shouting to use Cooldown Reduction.

    Heavy Power Assault
    Heavy Cannon Blade
    Heavy Revolver Cannon
    Heavy Harpoon Spear
    Heavy Ignition Crow - Napalm
    Heavy Giga Prominence

    Some skills with naturally high cooldown will significantly improve such as Shadow Step, Deadly Raid, Ignition Crow - Incinerator, Bursting Blade, and Ifrit Flame.

    You can also abuse Mental Crash + Breaking Fist even more with this investment in PvP.

    Skill damage:
    It's really a 50/50 split between actives and Strength.


    Summary:
    MP Cost Reduction and Cooldown Reduction will allow to maintain i-frames and survivability to its fullest because your skills will remain available consistently. Even if you throw everything into Skill Damage, there will be several cases you won't be able to one-shot or you overkill, which can cause a waste of mp. Potions have fixed cooldowns, which prevents you from being able to spam.

    Personal experience:
    I've never had more amazing gameplay with a MP Cost + Cooldown Reduction build in both PvP and PvE. It's worth it.
    Try aiming for a Henir 2/5 + Wisdom 2/5 build with 20% Reduced Damage. The 20% Reduced Damage is not much of a stat investment (around 2.3k I believe which isn't much) and can help you in dire situations to take a few more hits.
    Thanks for the tips man! I swear you must be the go-to guru for Raven; you know so much!

    So far I have started investing in mp reduction alongside cooldown. Ive also added 10 pointed to max hp/mp but will focus on the others for now.

  2. #12
    Bethma Guard
    Oct 2015
    Seeking Inner Peace
    695
    Haha Skyress is still a very credible Raven main. If you take Skyress' advice to do skill damage, your tactic should be getting the headstart against your PvE enemies so that you have less enemies surrounding you and/or cornering you. Her style is momentum while mine is consistency. Make sure you farm plenty of potions since the playstyle is not for the financially poor. Please time your potions well and DON'T MISS YOUR MOVES LOOOOOOOL. If you use a full on Strength build and you miss, you will put a "dent" on your cycling of potions which can become a nuisnce later on.
    Also, do take into account what Skyress said that we have different playstyles. For VC, she, a PvE main, mostly utilizes special actives while I am a solo, hybrid VC who utilizes both actives and special actives.

  3. #13
    Lanox Oracle
    Dec 2013
    ...
    5,194
    Haha Skyress is still a very credible Raven main. If you take Skyress' advice to do skill damage, your tactic should be getting the headstart against your PvE enemies so that you have less enemies surrounding you and/or cornering you. Her style is momentum while mine is consistency. Make sure you farm plenty of potions since the playstyle is not for the financially poor. Please time your potions well and DON'T MISS YOUR MOVES LOOOOOOOL. If you use a full on Strength build and you miss, you will put a "dent" on your cycling of potions which can become a nuisnce later on.
    Also, do take into account what Skyress said that we have different playstyles. For VC, she, a PvE main, mostly utilizes special actives while I am a solo, hybrid VC who utilizes both actives and special actives.
    (The moment when you use PA on a Shadow mob, you end up phasing through it due to lag, then use RC immediately after thinking you've pushed it with PA but actually haven't and miss RC completely)

    ImmortalSage has phrased it quite nicely, hopefully it makes sense.

  4. #14
    Bethma Guard
    Oct 2015
    Seeking Inner Peace
    695
    (The moment when you use PA on a Shadow mob, you end up phasing through it due to lag, then use RC immediately after thinking you've pushed it with PA but actually haven't and miss RC completely)

    ImmortalSage has phrased it quite nicely, hopefully it makes sense.
    *remembers the days in Eltrion Phase 1 when Power Assault kept phasing through Eltrion's head literally all the time QnQ*

    and thank youuuuuu

  5. #15
    Ruben Villager
    Apr 2014
    12
    +35% strenght skill all the way
    VC can still os and deal amazing damage with RC and harpoon spear
    MP/HP is useless, I dont know why a raven would invest into that.
    MP reduction could be good, but Ignition Crows need that damage boost from ERP

  6. #16
    Hamel Guardian
    Dec 2014
    Commencing the Cromwell invocation.
    3,035
    +35% strenght skill all the way
    VC can still os and deal amazing damage with RC and harpoon spear
    MP/HP is useless, I dont know why a raven would invest into that.
    MP reduction could be good, but Ignition Crows need that damage boost from ERP
    I have calculated, +0.5% HP/MP is a larger amount than 0.35% skill dmg, and increasing skill dmg also increasing OH recoil dmg, also you don't just spam skills all the time, but also using commands, many which cost HP in addition to MP. MP reduction is for when you spam many dmg categories, like Deadly Raid is Tenacity category, while Ifrit Flame is Bravery, not to mention tons of cost effective Actives. So -0.35% MP cost benefits everything, also accounted for when you miss targets with it, or not pull out maximum amount of dmg with it.

  7. #17
    Bethma Guard
    Oct 2015
    Seeking Inner Peace
    695
    +35% strenght skill all the way
    VC can still os and deal amazing damage with RC and harpoon spear "os" = one shot // Yes, the strategy is one-shotting. I will totally try that in Henir Challenge and Heroic Hell when I find the time to return.
    MP/HP is useless, I dont know why a raven would invest into that. a lot can be done with % based potions + increased resource pool limit
    MP reduction could be good, but Ignition Crows need that damage boost from ERP Is damage all you care about?
    Your perspective is too narrow. I have a strong feeling you never tried any other ERP build before full Strength Damage investment because you already felt confident with your first ERP investment and settled down with it immediately. Also, you skipped over many valid points mentioned in this thread and provided no counterargument.

    I have calculated, +0.5% HP/MP is a larger amount than 0.35% skill dmg, and increasing skill dmg also increasing OH recoil dmg, also you don't just spam skills all the time, but also using commands, many which cost HP in addition to MP. MP reduction is for when you spam many dmg categories, like Deadly Raid is Tenacity category, while Ifrit Flame is Bravery, not to mention tons of cost effective Actives. So -0.35% MP cost benefits everything, also accounted for when you miss targets with it, or not pull out maximum amount of dmg with it.
    -Sometimes, it is better to be able to finish your opponents more quickly. You don't have to play safe by becoming tankier to the point where you lose your crowd control because you lack damage ---> actually unsafe. Even though you have compared numerical values between how much you gain from Max HP/MP and Skill Damage, don't forget to take into account that there are more cases when you should be hitting your PvE enemies than when you get hit by PvE enemies. The times when HP/MP becomes vital is Heroic, Henir, and (maybe) SDs, yet it only makes it about equal in value with Skill Damage. Max HP/MP really shines in PvP, however.
    -The only skill types that Overheat are Strength and Bravery.
    -One problem with being a full-on actives VC is that a lot of actives are multi-hit, which is a huge problem against PvE foes with hit counters. I can only imagine using Napalm Grenade and Ground Impact against those kind of foes. *knows this because is an actives VC too*
    -The usual direct reason for choosing MP cost is to keep utility options available. Indirectly, a player MAY end up choosing a wider variety of skill types for the sake of having certain skills' unique properties.
    -*-0.25% MP Cost Reduction per ERP, not -0.35%

    On topic:

    Technically speaking, skill damage increase brings a better damage:mp ratio assuming that all hits connect.
    100 points into one Skill Damage with continuous use of that Skill Type (+35%): 1.35 damage / 1.00 MP = 1.35
    100 points into MP Cost Reduction (-25%): 1.00 damage / (1.00 - 0.25) MP = 1.333333333...

    The ratios are really close that the difference is less than 2% in dmg:mp. Personally, I would go with Cost Reduction for the sake of utility and being able to kill opponents with "the right amount" instead of wasting resources by overshooting (as long as I don't signicantly ruin my efficiency of course).

  8. #18
    Lanox Oracle
    Dec 2013
    ...
    5,194
    +35% strenght skill all the way
    VC can still os and deal amazing damage with RC and harpoon spear While RC and HS indeed deal great amounts of damage, you kind of need gear to do that, and not everyone can afford it. Good luck one-shotting in Heroic Hell without a +12.
    MP/HP is useless, I dont know why a raven would invest into that. Preference reasons (same with investing in MP cost reduction). It's still completely viable.
    MP reduction could be good, but Ignition Crows need that damage boost from ERP
    Ignition Crows shouldn't be used for purely damage unless you have Strength stacking gloves. I mean, the damage is nice, but that's not their main use (IC-I is for clearing, IC-N for Flames of Victory).

    Otherwise, ImmortalSage has covered everything I wanted to say.

  9. #19
    Hamel Guardian
    Dec 2014
    Commencing the Cromwell invocation.
    3,035
    @ImmortalSage: you maybe right about one-shotting stuffs, however so far as I observed, OP's stats are not high enough for that, far from that. Most of the time I was careful enough and the moving patterns of monsters/bosses are easy to predict and dodge, so I don't scare of retaliations, even less with teammates. While endgame bosses like Elysion's (not counting Hernacyds) are quite mobile, so better be agile and making use of varied skills. 90% of the times I inflicted more self dmg from OH than from being damaged by mobs/bosses, unless in 10-5 and 10-6.

    Nowaday +10 ammy is 4-5 bil, and since Raid was over, I think it would be better safe than sorry. Not to mention burning consumables like that would be not very economical.

  10. #20
    Ruben Villager
    Feb 2015
    Cornwall
    153
    So far, I've taken ImmortalSages and Skyress' advice on the matter; I'm going to focus more on damaging the enemy before they can to me.
    Whilst I totally agree that stacking damage isnt the answer, Im working to get higher Strength skill damage before working on other areas. I've also decided to not put points into my HA skill as I dont really use my HA that often and prefer to use my other skills. Therefore, with the 100 points I'll save, I'll put them into HP/MP as whats the harm in increasing base HP and MP anyway? More mana, more skills right? Wouldn't more HP mean slower HP decrease from OH? (I can post an image of my ERP layout so far)
    Since posting my stats, I've increased my Crit and Maxi both to over 10K and now have Dark III.

    Also, on the subject of IC-I, Ive put both ICs into my trans slots so that I can stack the Incineration debuff on enemies along with the extra fire debuff when enemies touch each other. (On the subject, how does the regenerating perk work for IC-I? Is the initial hit that gains mana or the Incineration hits?)

 

 

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