1. #1
    Elder Citizen
    Dec 2013
    283

    Misc. Eve questions (all jobs)

    (I feel like I made a thread like this a couple years back...)


    If I'm making one Ereda skill ring to share between all three Eves, which should I go for? Pre-renewal, I was an avid CBS main. Post-renewal, she's still great, but I feel a lot of what I liked about her before is gone, while CEm is looking more appealing and I've yet to get to CN. I suppose the answer here is probably "Flex if maining CEm/CN, Bravery if maining CBS, either figure it out or make two", but it doesn't hurt to ask for a second opinion.


    1. Is ECS still worth bringing at cap? I adored amp/spectrum pre-renewal, but Giga Stream's hitbox and Linear Divider's range both being chunked, Needles being a thing, and the trans passive having a better matk boost during EH, make me feel like I shouldn't bother. At the same time, Needles soften rather than kill and DLG isn't boosted by Code Breaker, so I feel like in places like heroics it could still have use.

    2. I've been running Heavy Linear Divider and Light Giga Stream in my trans slots...but it occurs to me that only one of the two can actually get the trans slot damage boost, and I'd always want that to be Linear Divider. I really hate renewal CBS's MP issues; would switching Giga Stream out for Energetic Heart and using Reversed Energetic Heart in the second trans slot be viable? (I do this in Ereda with my second skill tree, but I haven't tried an actual dungeon run with it yet)

    3. If no to #2, should I consider switching Giga Stream to Heavy too? The original logic behind Light was to have a cheaper option when I don't need Heavy LD's power and a lower cooldown option in case trans slots don't feel like refreshing, but both are staple bossing nukes so...


    1. What element do I want for PvE? I'm guessing either Wind IV or Wind III Water I, seeing as water's apparently lackluster in heroics and MEB is a thing. Light also interests me vaguely, but light isn't damage and I know it's just going to interfere with grouping enemies and piss me off.

    2. Are there times, independent of build, where Riseon Pride should be used over Efield+Surface Cutting, or vice versa? I just hit 95 today and wasn't expecting Riseon to refund as much MP as it does, but I imagine there are still situations (Henir Challenge, maybe Ereda) where you don't want to drop 300MP to get your servants out. Or maybe you do, since the attack seems pretty decent on its own.

    3. If I do run Riseon Pride...is Efield worth replacing regardless? Useful Efield does ~3011%, and you can V before it hits to give it Rule Break's +30% too, which makes its multiplier stronger than traitless Assault Spear even before considering it comes off her better attack stat. Unlike Illusion Stinger or Electronic Thunder, all your summon-related passives apply to it too. I don't particularly like the slow startup or that it KDs, but the damage:MP feels hard to beat, and the low cost+cooldown make it nice for fishing for Nasod Recharge.

    4. Are there any boss fights I should consider Oberon Guard for? I know it can interrupt the 10-2 boss when he tries to fly offscreen, but outside of that I dunno. I wasn't too impressed with it at Type-H; it's an amusing obstacle, but it doesn't interrupt the two dangerous moves.


    1. How is she in PvE nowadays?

    2. Element again, though I get the impression it'd be the same as CEm.

    3. I've read that CN is good with proc builds. Considering that, is running 6pc Alterasia over stronger weapons/Heroics armor worthwhile on her? I don't know if it's common knowledge, but the Type-H Storm Blade proc does a disgusting 16200% for a full hit, and apparently this gets another +25% from MDA for being a proc.

    4. Outside of the obvious fat immobile bosses, when does one want to press Critical Strike?

  2. #2
    Shelling Guardian
    Oct 2012
    Being compared to waterfall :^(
    4,855
    General Eve
    1. Yes, flex for CEM/CN while CBS gets to cry or you make two.

    CBS
    1. Honestly, I find myself in SDs always being in EH 24/7 even if I'm not trans LOL. I personally don't think it's worth slotting anymore especially with the trans passive. Your bossing rotation is something like EH + Code Breaker + Noodles + Sweep Rolling + Linear Divider. Your "clearing" is noodles, DLG, or HA. If you don't think you're going to use ECS, don't bother.

    2. Not worth using reversed EH since I believe you won't be able to keep it up 24/7 and using a non-damaging skill in trans slot is rarely useful. Do you have mana convert? That, alongside pots, of course, helps with her mana gain (May I see your skill slot btw).

    3. It's preference tbh. If that's your game plan, keep light. If you want to do more damage, be ready to chug pots.

    CEM
    1. Yup! Like everyone and their mom, wind and water is the way to go. Personally, I'm using Wind II Water II, but you can use any sort of combination you feel comfortable with. Light definitely isn't good.

    2. Riseon seems much more worth it to use these days (You used to not be able to use v key on Riseon Pride summons). It gives you another slot, it does damage, oberon/ophelia teleport to those hit by ferdy, and it has i-frames. The only time I can think where you use the other two summon skills is if you're doing a tenacity build (Hi haste oberon), or you dislike using Riseon. But in henir challenge and ereda, you should not have mp issues where riseon is difficult to get out.

    3. I believe the 30% damage increase does not apply to the start up skill, but rather when they act as summons. If you think you like it enough for warrant a slot, then go for it. Definitely not a traditional CEM build though.

    4. It should interrupt salad man's arma blade casting. It also interrupt's Berthe's wake up slash, Avalanche's icicles when he goes to the background(or let your summons take the hit), blocks nephilim from walking, I believe Victor, Sdeing, and Helputt too. Fun fact, oberon guard can proc because haha spaghetti code.

    CN
    1. Unfortunately, I'm not an avid CN player so I cannot give an accurate depiction of her in PvE. However, I do know that once she gets trans level 90 passive, she gets her strongest skill combo: Queen's Throne + Sin Scissors. I know iron scraps was trashed from a balance patch. Also like elctronic thunder, her trans 200 skill (Extreme Cutting) has the ability to freeze bosses. I would say she's in the middle of class if we were to have some sort of tier list of strongest to weaker (She's good, but there are better options).

    2. Yup, Wind+Water is practically for most classes these days lol

    3. Yup, that's common knowledge! I didn't know MDA boosted that, however. I think you can run that build for a long time, but then you'll notice you aren't on par with everyone. You have to dedicate your whole set-up to proc builds (IBs, accessories, pets, etc.) if you want to catch up to people with heroics. I say swap over to heroics once you have all the pieces and you think you're ready to move on from alterasia.

    4. Unfortunately I have no clue, but it looks like a good mobbing skill?

  3. #3
    Sander Chieftain
    Sep 2015
    At Nemmy's feet
    4,323

    1. How is she in PvE nowadays?
    Can't answer that one, 'cause I'm biased and will always love her regardless of how she actually fares, but she has taken a hit with the recent nerfs.

    2. Element again, though I get the impression it'd be the same as CEm.
    I still use Plagued, because I can't afford to reattribute everything and don't want to. Again, my help here would not be helpful at all.

    3. I've read that CN is good with proc builds. Considering that, is running 6pc Alterasia over stronger weapons/Heroics armor worthwhile on her? I don't know if it's common knowledge, but the Type-H Storm Blade proc does a disgusting 16200% for a full hit, and apparently this gets another +25% from MDA for being a proc.
    I don't think I'd recommend it. For proc builds, Glitter already beats Alterasia because there are more procs and much more stuff going on. If you are like me and love yourself some Alterasia speed buff, then by all means, take Alterasia and also use its 6/6 for Storm Blade, but there are better options. I'm also quite sure, that Heroics flat-out beat anything SDs have to offer if you grind long enough, but that's a different story.

    4. Outside of the obvious fat immobile bosses, when does one want to press Critical Strike?
    After trying out a while I found it quite helpful in all situations where you have a mob with many HP, that you can keep in its hitbox, e.g. SD minibosses. For heroics, where everything takes ♥♥♥♥ tons of damage you can simply spam it in groups large enough. Don't forget to use it mid-air to actually get some hits.

  4. #4
    Elder Citizen
    Dec 2013
    283
    Thanks for the quick and thorough replies!

    CBS
    1. Honestly, I find myself in SDs always being in EH 24/7 even if I'm not trans LOL. I personally don't think it's worth slotting anymore especially with the trans passive. Your bossing rotation is something like EH + Code Breaker + Noodles + Sweep Rolling + Linear Divider. Your "clearing" is noodles, DLG, or HA. If you don't think you're going to use ECS, don't bother.

    2. Not worth using reversed EH since I believe you won't be able to keep it up 24/7 and using a non-damaging skill in trans slot is rarely useful. Do you have mana convert? That, alongside pots, of course, helps with her mana gain (May I see your skill slot btw).

    3. It's preference tbh. If that's your game plan, keep light. If you want to do more damage, be ready to chug pots.
    1. Yeah, in the context of SDs I don't see any reason to not be in EH. It's Heroics and maybe Add dungeon I'm primarily thinking of, where enemies are going to have fat def and Code Breaker would be nice to utilize against crowds. Or maybe I'm overestimating their defense and it's actually mostly HP?

    2. I spam Mana Convert as much as possible, and abuse pet encourage as well. The idea here was trans slot refresh -> use boosted LD -> boost is gone, but now 50MP EH isn't on cooldown anymore. You're right that you lose 100% upkeep if the trans slot leaves you hanging though, which is why I was skeptical.

    General PvE:

    Thousand Star is usually one of Needles Cutting, Electronic Fall, or Reversed Photon Flare, but I'm messing around with it after I realized the 120 star option was effectively a 20% boost to mass release damage, and it pierces once + receives Code Breaker benefits.

    Ereda:

    Second skill page with Reversed Energetic Heart. The PvE set has Killing Blow (1).

    CEM
    1. Yup! Like everyone and their mom, wind and water is the way to go. Personally, I'm using Wind II Water II, but you can use any sort of combination you feel comfortable with. Light definitely isn't good.

    2. Riseon seems much more worth it to use these days (You used to not be able to use v key on Riseon Pride summons). It gives you another slot, it does damage, oberon/ophelia teleport to those hit by ferdy, and it has i-frames. The only time I can think where you use the other two summon skills is if you're doing a tenacity build (Hi haste oberon), or you dislike using Riseon. But in henir challenge and ereda, you should not have mp issues where riseon is difficult to get out.

    3. I believe the 30% damage increase does not apply to the start up skill, but rather when they act as summons. If you think you like it enough for warrant a slot, then go for it. Definitely not a traditional CEM build though.

    4. It should interrupt salad man's arma blade casting. It also interrupt's Berthe's wake up slash, Avalanche's icicles when he goes to the background(or let your summons take the hit), blocks nephilim from walking, I believe Victor, Sdeing, and Helputt too. Fun fact, oberon guard can proc because haha spaghetti code.
    1, 2, 4. Good to know!

    3. The Japanese wiki says its damage boost applies to Ophelia+Oberon's attacks on Riseon Pride's initial cast, and I know it can be used to move Ophelia before she casts Electronic Field too, so I imagine it boosts that too. I've yet to unlock the passive though (Atlas sucks), so I can't personally confirm.

    CN3. Yup, that's common knowledge! I didn't know MDA boosted that, however. I think you can run that build for a long time, but then you'll notice you aren't on par with everyone. You have to dedicate your whole set-up to proc builds (IBs, accessories, pets, etc.) if you want to catch up to people with heroics. I say swap over to heroics once you have all the pieces and you think you're ready to move on from alterasia.
    I don't think I'd recommend it. For proc builds, Glitter already beats Alterasia because there are more procs and much more stuff going on. If you are like me and love yourself some Alterasia speed buff, then by all means, take Alterasia and also use its 6/6 for Storm Blade, but there are better options. I'm also quite sure, that Heroics flat-out beat anything SDs have to offer if you grind long enough, but that's a different story.
    Alright, that's probably for the best considering it'd be a step back in my case (+10 lv70 trans which is a tad below +9 4D, random questionable +7 heroics armors). It just sounded like an amusing idea when I learned MDA would make for a hitproc on par with a lower-end HA and thought that might make up for the stat difference, but I suppose gloves alone let heroics beat it out.

    After trying out a while I found it quite helpful in all situations where you have a mob with many HP, that you can keep in its hitbox, e.g. SD minibosses. For heroics, where everything takes ♥♥♥♥ tons of damage you can simply spam it in groups large enough. Don't forget to use it mid-air to actually get some hits.
    Oh, I didn't even realize it was air-usable. That makes it sound much more versatile than I was first thinking.

  5. #5
    Sander Chieftain
    Sep 2015
    At Nemmy's feet
    4,323
    If your current gear allows you to do heroics, just do them, no need to waste perfectly good stones and scrolls on weaker gear. If your heroic armour is "random" and "questionable", you still have a long road ahead, but I wish you best of luck.

  6. #6
    Sander Chieftain
    Oct 2012
    404 Not Found
    4,032
    I'm not as knowledgeable about CEmp and CBS as I am with CN, and I think Aqua already addressed them pretty well, so I'll just give my two cents regarding CN.




    1. How is she in PvE nowadays?
    She's the worst out of the three of them, but with that being said overall she's not bad at all. She still has support options for boosting the team and she's pretty solid for the most part when it comes to bossing. Clearing and mobbing is slow but manageable. She's not the best, but by no means the worst either. I'd put her at average when compared to the rest of the cast.

    2. Element again, though I get the impression it'd be the same as CEm.
    I am a fan of wind and water since they're the most versatile and synergize pretty nicely with what CN has to offer. Wind procs on commands and actives and will also have its damage boosted by MDA, which overall results in some pretty good damage. It also makes the hit that it proc'd on ignore defense, and since most of your damage will be coming from sin scissors and commands/procs it really boosts your overall dmg output. Water slows enemies down and lets things like critical strike really shred through them thanks to the generally defense decrease. I'd definitely recommend attributing wind if possible. Whether you attribute water or not I feel is more of a playstyle choice for you to make. I personally run Wind II Water II, but you can do any mix match for the most part with wind and water. The only thing I will say is that it's best to not have water be lower than II since things have a lot of water resistance at end game, so you may not be able to even proc it if it's at Water I.

    3. I've read that CN is good with proc builds. Considering that, is running 6pc Alterasia over stronger weapons/Heroics armor worthwhile on her? I don't know if it's common knowledge, but the Type-H Storm Blade proc does a disgusting 16200% for a full hit, and apparently this gets another +25% from MDA for being a proc.
    Hello! You probably saw stuff about CN and procs in one of my posts. Regarding MDA, from my experience it boosted the dmg of everything that wasn't considered a special active, meaning things that could proc other stuff. So things like GW flask to Reaper swords would get their dmg boosted by it. However, things like Perkisas and Eltrion missiles, as far as I can tell, do not get their damage boosted by MDA. They can not proc anything either. So the question regarding Type-H Storm Blade is whether it's treated as a "summon" like the Perkisas and Eltrion stuff or as an actual proc like GW flasks and thunder. Unfortunately, I do not know which it counts as, nor do I have the funds or materials to be able to adequately test it. I think the safe side is to assume it counts similarly to Perkisas and Eltrion stuff.

    4. Outside of the obvious fat immobile bosses, when does one want to press Critical Strike?
    Basically what Yuuma said about it. I would also note that generally speaking, the ideal height to use Critical Strike is roughly a double jump distance above the ground, as that should be enough distance to allow the orbs to rotate along the ground to maximize damage output.
    Regarding a proc build versus heroic gear, proc builds excel when there's many targets to hit, as you end up with a massive chain of procs that shred through the cluster for you. When it comes to bossing, however, while it's still effective, its performance falls off compared to that of flex stacking from heroic gear. It's also important to note that most procs will not work / even proc on enemies that are immune to debuffs, such as Dekal and Herbeon. So with that being said, while a full fledged proc build is pretty fun and effective, well identified Heroic gear will have better overall performance.

    However, there's nothing stopping you from running a pseudo proc build with heroic gear (that's what I do lol). You just simply won't have any procs from your armor to help keep the chain going.

  7. #7
    Shelling Guardian
    Oct 2012
    Being compared to waterfall :^(
    4,855
    Going to correct myself from my previous post:
    Regarding ECS, I realized you can use it to buff HA. Take it if you want to do that, but you won't be using it much, and you'll exit out of EH.
    Regarding oberon guard and enemies, yesterday I learned while doing heroics that it stops survellen's spinning attack essentially making me really safe.

    1. Yeah, in the context of SDs I don't see any reason to not be in EH. It's Heroics and maybe Add dungeon I'm primarily thinking of, where enemies are going to have fat def and Code Breaker would be nice to utilize against crowds. Or maybe I'm overestimating their defense and it's actually mostly HP?
    Hmm... I cannot give a decisive opinion because I have not run either of those on my CBS. I do think that CBS should still be in 24/7 EH in Add Dungeon has clearing skills only usage I can think of is grouping rather than do damage. Though, take that opinion lightly

    2. I spam Mana Convert as much as possible, and abuse pet encourage as well. The idea here was trans slot refresh -> use boosted LD -> boost is gone, but now 50MP EH isn't on cooldown anymore. You're right that you lose 100% upkeep if the trans slot leaves you hanging though, which is why I was skeptical.

    General PvE:

    Thousand Star is usually one of Needles Cutting, Electronic Fall, or Reversed Photon Flare, but I'm messing around with it after I realized the 120 star option was effectively a 20% boost to mass release damage, and it pierces once + receives Code Breaker benefits.
    Personally I don't like Thousand Stars anymore after the nerf, but if you want to use it and it fits your playstyle, go for it. Only thing I'm somewhat skeptical about is illusion stinger, but I can see why you bring it. I personally would've slotted MEB especially with the new regen 2 trait.
    Ereda:

    Second skill page with Reversed Energetic Heart. The PvE set has Killing Blow (1).
    Don't see anything wrong here except maybe slot sweep rolling in somewhere in there.

    1, 2, 4. Good to know!

    3. The Japanese wiki says its damage boost applies to Ophelia+Oberon's attacks on Riseon Pride's initial cast, and I know it can be used to move Ophelia before she casts Electronic Field too, so I imagine it boosts that too. I've yet to unlock the passive though (Atlas sucks), so I can't personally confirm.
    I don't have it unlocked either, but from other CEm players and friends, they say it's not worth it.

    Alright, that's probably for the best considering it'd be a step back in my case (+10 lv70 trans which is a tad below +9 4D, random questionable +7 heroics armors). It just sounded like an amusing idea when I learned MDA would make for a hitproc on par with a lower-end HA and thought that might make up for the stat difference, but I suppose gloves alone let heroics beat it out.


    Oh, I didn't even realize it was air-usable. That makes it sound much more versatile than I was first thinking.
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  8. #8
    Elder Citizen
    Dec 2014
    In a Bowl
    244
    3. The Japanese wiki says its damage boost applies to Ophelia+Oberon's attacks on Riseon Pride's initial cast, and I know it can be used to move Ophelia before she casts Electronic Field too, so I imagine it boosts that too. I've yet to unlock the passive though (Atlas sucks), so I can't personally confirm.
    I just checked and it doesn't. I checked to see this as soon as I got it when it came out and it also didn't apply back then. Rule Break is fundamentally worthless in PvE, unless you really like your summons doing all the damage.
    (Also because of checking this, I now know that Riseon Pride's initial attack damage isn't boosted by Queen's Authority)

  9. #9
    Elder Citizen
    Dec 2013
    283
    Thanks again, everyone. Few more preference-based CEm questions.


    Heavy or Critical? I took Critical to have a clearing move that ignores shields, but I don't see it being blocked as much as I expected in areas like Velder's Hallucination, and I think Genocide Ripper tends to backhit anyway, not that it necessarily works in all the same situations.


    Gigantic or Heavy? I believe Gigantic gets ~2 more hits than the default size on things it can't carry, and it can clear three platforms at once with proper positioning, but I neglected to do a size comparison with the default, and Space Wrench's damage is more front-loaded now, so Heavy may have more damage and sacrifice less utility than I thought by comparison.


    Wind pet suggestions? At a glance I'm seeing "Hedgehog has huge AoE but is $$$; Alice is cute with decent AoE and offers water res for heroics; Eltrion Jr. looks cool" which has me leaning toward Alice, but I don't know if there are any important nuances I'm missing (Do any of them KD? Is Alice prone to missing? Does Eltrion Jr. have more splash than the graphics suggest? etc.).

  10. #10
    Elder Citizen
    Dec 2014
    In a Bowl
    244

    Vanilla, Gigantic, Gigantic + Giant Pot (forgot to do Regular + Gigantic). It's a bit of a rough comparison. I recommend gigantic only for when you want to use space wrench as a mobber and using heavy for henir. It does more damage than Heavy Assault Spear as well and does a bit less than heavy geno ripper against giant training monkeys.

    I personally use critical just so I don't have to worry about KDed mobs since I usually use Space Wrench → Sweeper or those moments where I have stupid party members.

    Eltrion Jr. is more so his missiles lock on to anything near or far away(?), from what I remember from a friend. Only other pets I would use are hedgehog, Hoya and Miho (my CEm uses Miho)

 

 

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