: Should MMs be banned?

72.
  • No.

    45 62.50%
  • Yes.

    27 37.50%
  1. #21
    Elder Citizen
    Sep 2012
    The Vanillasphere!
    270
    There's issues with them, and one of them is because they're community driven and not organized by the company in any way.
    MM's can hurt the community and the playerbase on their own, and I don't think most game companies would want that, along with legal implications that could arise from it.

    Like Kiryu said, if it's between like two people or maybe close friends, then fine.
    But when it's within a public group or anything like that, then there's problems that could potentially and could probably easily occur.

  2. #22
    Feita Knight
    Aug 2014
    Feita2 Feita
    1,502
    Money matches are a controversial part of the gaming community. Some are done in good fun while others can't handle losses well and resort to playing dirty by bringing legality and that poses a threat to any business.

    Money matches are a popular part of the gaming community as a whole. And most who participate in said matches know what they're getting into and what it means should they lose. They should also know how it can affect the creators of the game they are playing. If they do not know any one of these things, they shouldn't participate in a money match to begin with.

    I personally have nothing against fair money matches that take place with a fair result. If someone loses and acts like some baby back @[email protected]#$ then they shouldn't have accepted to the match in the first place. They don't have the gaming company to blame, nor their opponents or the game itself to blame.

    This is to all of you. One of the reasons why I avoid arena like the plague is because of the attitudes that players have when they lose and even sometimes when they win. There's no justifiable reason to be a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to people in a video game, because games are supposed to be fun. By acting like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you only make something that is supposed to be fun not fun anymore. I play a lot more Overwatch than I do of Elsword these days, and the problem is very similar there. Except Elsword isn't entirely a team based game. Overwatch people are more likely to target another player on their team for their losses and tell them how "bad" they were. Elsword, in any arena environment you have the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ winners that rub it in peoples faces with comments like "get geared noob" and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ losers that find a reason to blame for their own losses like "gear carried scrub". These are just examples of course. There's also always the lagger excuse, cable pulling, etc. They find reasons to blame something else for their losses. I myself am still somewhat the same way. I've gotten SOOOOO much better about it in the past 6 or so months thanks to several of the Overwatch streams that I watch. They are usually very chill and very calm, they have calm chill music in the background. It's hard to not be chill while watching them. And it made me want to be more like that, even if I was losing. Everytime I lose in some competitive environment I've noticed myself reflecting back on myself rather than looking to my opponents or teammates to find a reason that didn't involve me for a loss that I received. PLEASE, as a community try to do the same. Maybe then PVP would me more fun and appealing to players that don't normally do so.

    (also to any GM's reading this, please consider something in the future about quests for events that require the PVP aspect of your game and factor that there might be a lot of new or undergeared PVE based players that might not be able to clear your quests or if they do it will take an excruciating amount of time to complete. NPC's don't nearly appear as much as they could, and as an example my IS who is lv58 had to play, unranked against S, SS and lv80+ players. I just think that matchmaking needs to be relooked at and not calling you, the game or the company bad. It'd just be nice if it was revisited is all I'm saying)
    : Please keep the ban discussion out of this thread

  3. #23
    Ruben Villager
    Sep 2015
    193
    Short version: I don't think banning people for holding a money match is justified; however, I can understand the apprehension about having them around.

    A money match would be reliant on one's skills and preparation - no forms of luck aside critical hit RNG or other minor things. It's also an agreement between the two participating sides, and no one else - even if a game is used as the medium for the competition, the company who created the game has no obligations - it was the participants' choice to use that game to battle on. If one side doesn't like what happened, they can only really blame themselves for both agreeing to the match and agreeing to hold it on the game in question.

    Still, as it's been said, the idea of holding a money match is quite hazardous in a community sense - if the two sides aren't having it in good fun or honesty, lots of flak could fly about. There's also the matter of having one side back out, which leads to that side being ostracized for the act. Certainly, the consequences of doing so are on them... but all the same, if the match wasn't allowed to happen, this toxicity wouldn't have come up to begin with.

    In the end, I do think money matches are dangerous for the health of the community and its players if not done between two individuals that genuinely trust one another. Someone who can't stay with it shouldn't ever attempt to be in one, because if someone can't stay with it, people are VERY likely to get hurt.

    As for outright banning someone involved, though? The people in the match accepted the terms and potential risks, and the company only provided the medium that those people agreed on - no one can be justified in complaining towards the company about a result. If there's imbalances or unfair mechanics in the game... well, both sides of the money match walked into the battlefield knowing about these and accepting them. How you're seen in the community after a match and how you act in it? Both sides will know and accept these possibilities as well.

    I don't like the idea of money matches in this game, personally, given the dangers they bring, and I don't condone having them... but I also don't think willingly entering one warrants a ban. So long as people are responsible, they can exist without resulting in casualties. A ban should only really come about if one side tries to attack the company or opponent (because of how the match went) without just reason - this falls under harassment and defamation.

  4. #24
    Bethma Guard
    Sep 2011
    Library
    671
    Short version: I don't think banning people for holding a money match is justified; however, I can understand the apprehension about having them around.

    In the end, I do think money matches are dangerous for the health of the community and its players if not done between two individuals that genuinely trust one another. Someone who can't stay with it shouldn't ever attempt to be in one, because if someone can't stay with it, people are VERY likely to get hurt.
    The only condition I have about money matches is that the person is actually old enough to fund the match themselves and be able to confirm it for a game like this where teenagers and kids frolick around believing their parents' money to be their own money. After that, any mental/emotional damage the person receives comes from not paying the price of a money match, because essentially it's not a money match. However, you could also easily create a money match video and not even confirm payment (or refund the person who paid you so there's no issue). That kind of thing would be for friends only, because it's essentially just to put on a show. The natural agreement that money has to be paid is something people themselves come to the point of agreement, not the "you can bail out of this" kind of logic. You don't go to a store and ask for your money back when you don't like something that you bought or bought the wrong thing UNLESS the store is willing to do it. Same thing for players. It's all settled before the match begins, or at least should be.

    Just to clarify, I don't agree with permabanning for stuff like this. Permabans are used way too frequently in my opinion at the moment, and even if money matches are still not allowed, I think the primary offense should be lowered to a 3-day ban and then the second offense being the permaban. We had no awareness that this kind of thing was bannable even though the terms and conditions clearly state "no betting" which is what money matches entail by default. Yet when we do giveaways that involve RNG or gambling of some sort, nobody ever gets banned for doing it despite that it also by definition breaks the rules. A revision on the terms and policies means sorting out the current contract which honestly is rough territory. It all depends on what NA would want and what KOG would want vs. what the players want, and we don't really have a hive mind here working to say the majority thinks in favor of this kind of issue.

    All-in-all if this game actually wants a competitive scene of some sort then money matches are actually one angle of it. This game needs all it can get. In other games you will find higher skill players doing money matches and the lower players not really doing it since it won't gain high attention (and on YT you can refund yourself depending on the views unironically). There is no reason to be taking away higher incentive to BE a good player and use it to your advantage for fight OTHER good players. We use tournaments for that purpose and money matches should be no different. It generates real hype among players when the question of skill is involved. The issue with Elsword is that we don't know where a character would be fundamentally balanced enough to really create a skill-dependent match, but hey, that shouldn't stop people from wanting to know who is "better."

  5. #25
    Sander Chieftain
    Jan 2012
    Eve's luxury closet
    4,120
    if it's really illegal then it should have been in the policy since the start and ppl who did it'd have been warned ages ago

    obviously no

  6. #26
    Ruben Villager
    Jul 2017
    1
    From one point of view, DeathLapse touched on it a bit. The biggest issue that I see that I notice most people haven't really brought up is Age.

    Money matches can be on tourneys of other games because 1) 99% of the time people are of age to do said mm
    2) the tourneys people are referring to aren't really mmos.

    For the original topic this is a game for players 13 and up, not 18/21 and up. So the whole promoting betting and gambling as a viable reason as an offense would be reasonable in this case. It may not be in the policy, but if you think of gaming laws, international laws, and gambling laws in KR (since this IS a KR game), it should be common sense at this point, especially if you research it after the fact.

    If there weren't younger players playing and this was strictly a game for much older audiences, then I would see mm as nothing more of a plaything for adults who can handle it.

    But when you have salt, younger people, and the abuse of mechanics, that's another story altogether.

  7. #27
    Altera Savior
    Jun 2011
    899

    This is to all of you. One of the reasons why I avoid arena like the plague is because of the attitudes that players have when they lose and even sometimes when they win. There's no justifiable reason to be a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to people in a video game, because games are supposed to be fun. By acting like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you only make something that is supposed to be fun not fun anymore. I play a lot more Overwatch than I do of Elsword these days, and the problem is very similar there. Except Elsword isn't entirely a team based game. Overwatch people are more likely to target another player on their team for their losses and tell them how "bad" they were. Elsword, in any arena environment you have the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ winners that rub it in peoples faces with comments like "get geared noob" and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ losers that find a reason to blame for their own losses like "gear carried scrub". These are just examples of course. There's also always the lagger excuse, cable pulling, etc. They find reasons to blame something else for their losses. I myself am still somewhat the same way. I've gotten SOOOOO much better about it in the past 6 or so months thanks to several of the Overwatch streams that I watch. They are usually very chill and very calm, they have calm chill music in the background. It's hard to not be chill while watching them. And it made me want to be more like that, even if I was losing. Everytime I lose in some competitive environment I've noticed myself reflecting back on myself rather than looking to my opponents or teammates to find a reason that didn't involve me for a loss that I received. PLEASE, as a community try to do the same. Maybe then PVP would me more fun and appealing to players that don't normally do so.
    agreed.

    Give els too much salt, and nobody wants to take a bite. We all log on and que hoping that there's less salt each time yet we are only further disappointed and unsatisfied. heck for any game really.

    still hoping for anime comeback or Elsword 2, minus all the bs. would make a list of said bs but that would take a few weeks.

    OT: what yuuma or Yuma or Yumma said.

    this whole, disposable income with ego PvP and honor and such and whatnot.

  8. #28
    Sander Chieftain
    Sep 2015
    At Nemmy's feet
    4,323
    Yet when we do giveaways that involve RNG or gambling of some sort, nobody ever gets banned for doing it despite that it also by definition breaks the rules.
    You do realise that entering a giveaway with RNG involved does not equal a gamble unless you're required to pay in some way to enter, which would contradict the "giving away" part of a giveaway? The definition of the word gamble mentions a risk, which in the case of money matches is a potential loss of money. There is no such risk tied to posting in a thread of "giving away my CS/IB 5/5 whatever".

  9. #29
    Ruben Villager
    Sep 2016
    6
    I asked in support and they say this againts our Terms and Condition, if u dont read, not means it is not there and in this T&C say any changes made immediately without notice, and much companies this rule is common in T&C and some user accept that when create your account.

    Yes, is illegal

  10. #30
    Feita Knight
    Dec 2015
    Up in the North
    1,071
    So, what's the lesson learned from all this? (If any?)

    It seem like this will discourage people to do PVP, regardless of how the issue that started this topic was resolved.

 

 

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