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  1. #1
    Ruben Villager
    Nov 2013
    7

    An open letter to KOG's Balancing team...

    Dear Kog Balancing Team...

    It has been quite the journey. I am a devoted Elsword player for the last 4+ years. I started playing this game in 2013 with a brand new code: Electra. I fell in love with her and her play style. I was happy; I found a game that I can devote much of my time and effort and enjoy for years to come. Fast forward 4000+ hours later (thank you steam game tracker), I have became one of the older veterans of this game. I have seen my fair share of nerfs, buffs, revamps, new skills, equipments, and characters, but I sticked with my main character I created 5 years ago: my Code Battle Seraph. I am a primarily PVE player. I am write to you today because the recent approach to balancing my class has raised some dire concern.

    My intent for this letter is NOT to get my character "buffed". I need to be clear: I do not mind nerfs. Whenever there is a nerf wave that hit my character, I will research new skill sets and play styles that optimize the most of my new kit. My philosophy was always adapt quickly and thrive. These were fun experiences to keep my play style fresh and contributed to my reason to play this game for as long as I have. I also need to be frank: No body likes to see their character nerfed. The recent "batting" has left my character in a very painful state; I understand that there are always underdogs in games with a board character lineup such as elsword and I accept my underdog position (my opinion, of course) with pride. However, some concerns still nags at me and I felt must be addressed.

    I am really sadden by the current state of CBS in the PVE settle. She has a lot of powerful, mana expensive, and long cooldown skills. To optimally play her in the current end game dungeons, one must constantly drink potions and spam these spells. This play style, while very powerful, is unrewarding and boring. I understand CBS is not the most complex character (she has always been closer to the simple side of things) but now any game play skill or experience I have gathered with her for years feels of little matter. There is no optimize effectiveness with skill set ups, positioning, health and mana management, ETC. I feel the reason for this downward spiral is the introduction of Transcendence.

    Transcendence was great, I felt the developing team really understand my character's flaws and addressed them perfectly. The primary reason why i felt this way is because of Code: Battle Seraph's complete reliance on special actives. She is a character without any powerful actives (most of which are gearing toward the pvp side of things) or damaging command combos (most of which are just useful to gather mana to fuel her spells). Transcendence solved her biggest problems by introducing passives that increase her mana reserves, in the forms of mana refund, mana reduction, and cooldown reduction. Sadly here is the crux of my concern. Before Transcendence was introduced, Most of CBS's passives were simple and flexible, not mattering which skill combination my playstyle was utilizing. That all changed with transcendence, ts powerful passives demanded specific the usage of specific skills. Here is the context; CBS's lv 90 transcendence passive, Cheat Code: Electro, requires the usage of photon flash, kugel blitz, mana convert, and energy needles (fondly called noodles by the CBS community). Of these skills, other than photon flash, the other three has all been severely crippled in the last few months and will be further crippled (sorry noodles, I looked ahead to korea patches) in the balance changes. Normally I would just use other skills to replace them, or change my playstyle. This time, however, should I have done what I have always done, I will be giving up the transcendence identity of CBS. This feels really really bad. It is one thing to give up a few skills, it is an entirely other to give up a powerful tool given to a class that is the identity of the class's transcendence. This time I felt I was given much of a choice, I must either use what I feel are sub-optimal skills, or revert back to just a plain second job CBS. Objectively, there is probably a optimal skill build for me, emotionally however, it feels like a lose-lose situation. I plead with you balancing team, please refrain from this type of balance. This does not encourage innovation or proactive approaches to this game.


    This is a letter to express my concerns, but also a attempt to start dialogs for change. There is no balancing in a vacuum. We all love elsword (The Game...), and are doing our best to promote this game to new highs. I hope we can use this opportunity to help improve the play experience of not just CBS but all characters in the game. Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    -A concerned CBS Veteran.

    TL DL: I don't think balancing is doing it right. not because of they are nerfing the numbers, but... you really have to read...

    Edit: added TL DL...

  2. #2
    Ruben Villager
    May 2012
    West
    57
    Whoever actually read this whole thing needs to go to sleep, for real.

  3. #3
    (ヽยดω`)
    Mar 2011
    piglet my guy
    11,520
    Things they did to my CBS...
    Even a year later they still going at it.

    But too bad devs can't rly read English unless someone manages to translate it to them.

    Market thread || Code of Conduct || avi by Y0na

  4. #4
    Bethma Guard
    Sep 2011
    Library
    671
    I am really sadden by the current state of CBS in the PVE settle. She has a lot of powerful, mana expensive, and long cooldown skills. To optimally play her in the current end game dungeons, one must constantly drink potions and spam these spells. This play style, while very powerful, is unrewarding and boring. I understand CBS is not the most complex character (she has always been closer to the simple side of things) but now any game play skill or experience I have gathered with her for years feels of little matter. There is no optimize effectiveness with skill set ups, positioning, health and mana management, ETC. I feel the reason for this downward spiral is the introduction of Transcendence.
    The Energy Needles spamming was a complaint for many previous CBS players that I'm aware of. Still though, we didn't have Transcendence introduce that playstyle at all. That was actually Renewal. If anything, Transcendence made the playstyle not possess such a huge deficit by spam casting anything. It used to be Giga Stream (alternatively Linear Divider) and Photon Flare if you had mana leftover, but usually people would note Giga Stream as the superior skill due to doing its damage faster. Skill Tree revamp state CBS was harder to play and gave no real incentive to anyone new to her if we're speaking from an "optimal PvE" standpoint, not to mention that she had no good combos. There were better classes for it and still are. CEm actually had much better PvE around that time and now CN is the top for initial Eve players (I'll get to the "initial" part later).

    Elsword PvE was never difficult, but it became ridiculously easy after Renewal. I just want to notify you that it's not just CBS, but every single character stopped needing to think about positioning, mana management, etc. because things just died so quickly. This was before Hero mode ever existed.

    Sadly here is the crux of my concern. Before Transcendence was introduced, Most of CBS's passives were simple and flexible, not mattering which skill combination my playstyle was utilizing. That all changed with transcendence, ts powerful passives demanded specific the usage of specific skills. Here is the context; CBS's lv 90 transcendence passive, Cheat Code: Electro, requires the usage of photon flash, kugel blitz, mana convert, and energy needles (fondly called noodles by the CBS community). Of these skills, other than photon flash, the other three has all been severely crippled in the last few months and will be further crippled (sorry noodles, I looked ahead to korea patches) in the balance changes. Normally I would just use other skills to replace them, or change my playstyle. This time, however, should I have done what I have always done, I will be giving up the transcendence identity of CBS. This feels really really bad. It is one thing to give up a few skills, it is an entirely other to give up a powerful tool given to a class that is the identity of the class's transcendence. This time I felt I was given much of a choice, I must either use what I feel are sub-optimal skills, or revert back to just a plain second job CBS. Objectively, there is probably a optimal skill build for me, emotionally however, it feels like a lose-lose situation. I plead with you balancing team, please refrain from this type of balance. This does not encourage innovation or proactive approaches to this game.
    Here's the thing though: CBS before Transcendence still had mana issues. You still had to chug potions. You want to note that the skills were nerfed and that it feels bad, but do you even know why they were nerfed? While we don't have KOG's complete list of logic, we do have information available as to some possibilities.

    For example, for anyone that isn't an initial Eve player, they've most likely obtained ERP. This completely changes how a character interacts with the game in terms of their efficiency. So, we get a mana hungry CBS and change her to mana efficient once we get ERP up to around 50 for MP cost (-12.5% MP cost). Include the Energetic Heart refund, and you're only paying 134 MP (rounded) per Energy Needles which already outdamages most everyone if allowed to hit its maximum times in PvE. This is extremely crucial as you've saved 36 MP per cast. Mana Conversion only continues this cost decrease and slaps it down to a total 120 MP. Obviously not worth using on Needles but the option is there. This is only 50 ERP. The cost efficiency goes up all the way up to 25% and it becomes ridiculously easy to sustain yourself without potions. Now we involve Transcendence slot where Energy Needles will not only do more damage, but have a 7 second CD and basically no downtime prior to the nerfs that CBS took. It was honestly braindead but accomplished more than what half the roster could do in PvE.

    Now I found no issue with this because I thought it was just the name of the game for how to play CBS. But since KOG seems set on toning down extremely powerful PvE characters due to Ereda Island (where Energy Needles was at its absolute strongest), naturally it had to take the hit. You only needed one CBS in team and you auto-won. That's not fun for anyone on the losing side and reminds me of the previous Ereda terrible class balances.

    Regardless, there is nothing stopping CBS players from using any of the nerfed skills. Thousand Star got Light trait in KR which makes the MP cost drop down to 140 in exchange for a DPS/overall damage decrease from the loss of previous traits. She is not suffering as much as you are exclaiming, and Eve has always been a "high enhance" character where she does terribly on lower gear settings. It's your choice as to whether you stop using CBS' obviously more upgraded form because of the bias of getting nerfed too hard (everyone's been there already if they didn't play Rune Slayer who has always been buffed more than nerfed), but I'm just going to tell you what I told DL players of back then when Luciel received their socket stacking removal: It's not as bad as you think.

    Anyway, hope you find your center.
    : Ugh brain fart.

  5. #5
    Feita Knight
    Dec 2015
    Up in the North
    1,071
    I noticed Energy Needles + Energetic Heart became the meta for C:BS around the time of Perkisas Phase 1. Simply doing that gave a better score than anything else CBS did, period.

  6. #6
    Ruben Villager
    Dec 2015
    65
    Noodles dumbed down CBS to be honest, it's nothing but spam Noodles because how versatile that skill is, anything in CBS skill sets Noodles can do it better.

    I would trade CBS old mana gain for Noodles if you ask me.

  7. #7
    Hamel Guardian
    Dec 2013
    闇の世界!? Nah.
    3,718
    Rant? Gonna read it later for my daily nutritional intake~

  8. #8
    Ruben Villager
    Nov 2013
    7
    I acknowledge that renewal cbs has some serious flaws. In fact I was so looking forwards to renewal cbs since she was the second wave, and the first wave of Rena, Elsword, and Aisha were ridiculous OP during that time. But I think you will also agree that cbs renew bombed... HARD. I was much stronger in the pre-renewal than renewal stage. It took a long series of buffs to get her back during that period.

    But sorry back on point. My intention was not not to show that CBS was nerfed hard and unplayable, I am sorry if that part is not clear.. Writing coherently is not my cup of tea. My point is that I feel constrained... I don't want to rely on Noodles all the time, its not a great skill atm if you do the math. I am forced to use that because it gives me a 20% cooldown. Its not great character balance if you make players settle into bread and butter skills for that sweet transpassive, then nerf those skill really really hard. At this point do I choose to give up those skill and passive and choose new ones or just keep playing like I have always been? I always thought nerfs are kog's way of shifting strengths of a character around, and if I keep playing as if nerf never happened then its rather pointless...

    To your ERP proposition, I can keep up noodles with no down time, and I do have ERP in mana reduction. I have to address this common miss conception. NOODLES DOES NOT KILL ANYTHING BY ITSELF IN THE END GAME DUNGEONS. so if we just use the most conservative mana costs 70 mana for EH, 120 mana for noodles, mix in a few other lasers from here and there. Nothing short of a full mana potion will allow you to cycle your next wave of skills. I realize you understand that is is how cbs has been for the last year or so, but I think you will also agree that this is not how a character should be played. CBS has no mana gain, and I don't think you would argue that this is a balancing flaw that is minor.

    As for ereda and enhancement reliance, I don't play that much. And I know one of the reason one of the bigger nerfs to CBS was because of that mode. I would argue that nerfing a character because of a mode (which is not really popular compare to end game dungeon pve) this hard is not fair, but we can personally discuss this in finer detail should you want to. I will put this point on hold for the sake of not muddling my primary argument.

    I feel that things are bad, but the path is not going for the better. We should be improving flaws of things such as mana issues, reliance on braindead skills, and lack of decision making, not accepting it. We should be vocal about things that obviously are going down hill, not being silent because its how it had been for a while. I agree with alot of your points, but "not as bad as you think" is not how we should approach things that are not going to improve the gameplay. Don't you think so?

    EDIT: I'm bad with this... SHould have replied with quote...

  9. #9
    Elder Citizen
    Jul 2015
    256
    So can someone sum up the problem in one or two sentences? Even after reading that wall of text I don't really get it.

  10. #10
    Feita Knight
    Jan 2016
    The Vast Unknown
    1,311
    So can someone sum up the problem in one or two sentences? Even after reading that wall of text I don't really get it.
    In summary:
    Renewal CBS turned into a Noodle-centered class and Transcendence made all of that worse since the lvl 90 passive's most useful effect centers around Noodles. Now KOG nerfs Noodles which is the skill that they made as CBS's central skill. OP thinks that's bad designing.

    On another note, I gotta agree with OP though. Pre-renewal CBS felt much better than the new one (been playing as one for 2 years). You put different skills for different reasons. Kugel (when it was still an active and has actual damage for the mana used) for killing enemies which are on different floors. GS for a long linear and strong sweep, but is vertically challenged. LD for a shorter and weaker clear, but has good vertical range compared to GS, and is her bossing skill. Particle Ray for when you don't have that much mana. EH for gaining mana (mana gain of electron balls were nerfed to 0 upon renewal when in EH) and bossing, clearing is sacrificed for mana gain when not against boss. I didn't find out about EH's mp gain until renewal, so I couldn't do this playstyle (at least I destroyed people in PvE with TH). But now Noodles does what all those offensive skills did, so you just need to activate EH>>>Noodles>>> dash ZX 'till everything dies if you have high enough enhancements (they won't die with just that with lower enhancements, I've been there).

 

 

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